SUN. UPDATE: Mir talks Lesnar, Edge returns, Michaels, Pillman Jr., Bischoff on WWE, Matt Hardy
We're looking for your thoughts on Tonight's TNA Turning Point PPV, so you can leave a thumbs up, thumbs down or thumbs in the middle along with a best and worst match to
We're also looking for reports on today's Raw show in Nottingham, England as well as Friday's Raw show in Cardiff, Wales and also the weekend North East Wrestling shows.
Turning Point lineup for tonight:
*Jeff Hardy vs. Matt Morgan for the TNA title
*Motor City Machine Guns vs. Team 3-D for the tag titles in supposedly 3-D's last match
*Samoa Joe vs. Jeff Jarrett
*EV 2 (Sabu & Rhino & Stevie Richards & Raven) vs. Fortune (A.J. Styles & Kazarian & Beer Money)
*Rob Van Dam vs. Tommy Dreamer
*Jay Lethal vs. Robbie E for the X Division title
*Pope vs. Abyss with fans as lumberjacks
On paper this show doesn't stand out. You take Kurt Angle out and put Styles in an eight-man and put Matt Morgan in a main event against anyone not named Angle and you're taking your chances.
We'll have live coverage of the show on the site starting at 8 p.m. Eastern time.
Raw will be taped a few hours ahead of time on Monday at the Manchester Evening News Arena. Smackdown, which has announced Dolph Ziggler vs. MVP for the IC title, will be taped on Tuesday in the same location.
There is also a Smackdown show on Monday in Newcastle, England, and a Raw house show on Tuesday in London, England.
TNA is taping TV's on Monday and Tuesday also in Orlando.
We've got a huge issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter up on the site today, looking at a post mortem of the Linda McMahon Senate run, a huge feature on WrestleMania, update on Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker, more details on major WWE injuries and how they affect the show and a look at the mentality as they start putting together next year's biggest show. We also have all the details on the WEC merger with UFC, why it happened, when the decision was made and who knew, as well as a look at the life and career of the Flying Frenchman, Edouard Carpentier, and from various sources, the real story behind one of the most talked about matches in the history of pro wrestling, the 1957 Lou Thesz vs. Carpentier match.
We have a major story on the road to WrestleMania, updating key injuries, the prospects of headliners, whether it's good or bad to use MMA fighters with wrestling backgrounds on the show, an update of where the Lesnar situation stands and some surprises on that account, reasons why Lesnar should do the show if he can, an update on Lesnar and WWE, C.M. Punk's situation, Bill Goldberg's situation and more.
We've also got a complete look at the UFC/WEC merger, looking at the business side, why it had to happen, how this will affect jobs within the company, title matches, depth of PPV shows over this past year and television deals. We also talk with Urijah Faber, the face of WEC, for his thoughts and what he knew. We look at what needed to happen to facilitate this, why it took place now, matches that have been changed, the first WEC match on a UFC show coming in only a few weeks, who will be in charge of booking, what two weight classes will be affected the most and more WEC history.
Besides the issue, we have two issues from this week up as well as a new back issue from August 1993 also up. You can also get the Observer delivered by mail, with details below. For those who are web site subscribers, not only do we have issues once and in big news weeks, twice every week, but also release one back issue from 1993 each week.
We look at what went wrong in the McMahon campaign, the influence of pro wrestling on the campaign, the moment the campaign was derailed and whether pro wrestling helped or hurt her in the end. We look at what also didn't come out in the press about the campaign that would have both helped and hurt her, her role in the WWE, her future in politics and whether this is the end, or just the beginning.
We have an update on Rey Mysterio, a feud of heels being talked about, lots of different storyline ideas discussed over the last week including dropping of some program ideas, how the world title situation has changed, a feud being suggested that I think won't happen, more on the incident at a Linda McMahon late rally, signing of Val Venis, Survivor Series update, a WWE wrestler who was quietly cut without anything being said, Lita return, reaction to Pee Wee Herman, and lots of company business news.
We also have more a WWE performer in a magazine contest, why some people are glad the election is over, and what numbers in a foreign country tell us about WWE PPV and UFC PPV, as well as WWE's strongest overseas markets. We also look at changes being made in WWE training and why, more Hall of Fame talk, a look at the Fan Appreciation show as well as weekend house show business and highlights.
We also have a giant feature on the life and times of Carpentier. We look at what he will be best known for, circumstances of his death, reaction to his death, his championship history, the championships he created and why the June 14, 1957 Thesz vs. Carpentier match is one of the most important single matches in the history of the business.
We also go behind the scenes of that match, why the Carpentier title win was really erased from the record books, and why Carpentier's title reign fell apart. We look at how Carpentier played a part in the creation of numerous world titles, the unique situation of his second WWA title win, his pre-wrestling background and where the name Carpentier first came from.
We look at his arrival in North America, his training, his world title run, how quickly he became a superstar after arrival, why he was picked to win the world title, his relationship with Eddie Quinn and how that helped and destroyed his career, the famed riot at Madison Square Garden and repercussions of that match. We look at his world title challenges later in his career, the history of pro wrestling in Montreal, the era of Grand Prix Wrestling, his role in the career of Andre the Giant, some of his most famous matches, and how he's known currently in Montreal. We also look at his matches with Hulk Hogan and his role in the setup of the Montreal version of Hogan vs. Andre the Giant.
We also have an in-depth look at the ratings of all the national shows this past week, including how every segment on Raw and Impact did, as well as a look at what audience was retained and changed in the Smackdown move to Syfy.
We also have our usual weekly features with results of the major arena shows from around the world, and the major TV show rundowns and reviews.
The Wrestling Observer ranges from 25,000 to 40,000 words covering pro wrestling and MMA all over the world.
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Also in this week's issue:
--Former WCW and WWE star loses hair
--Two top stars in AAA and updates on whether they are done with the group
--Finals of the NOAH NTV jr tag team tournament featuring wrestlers from a number of different promotions, including the ROH champions team
--Update on New Japan tag team tournament
--Former WWE stars face top Japanese team on Inoki show
--New promotion expects to get back on national television in U.S. shortly
--Indie group in negotiations for a sale and reworking for television
--Former WWE star and local wrestling legend announces a retirement tour, and sets goal to promote wrestling for the next 36 years
--Numerous 80s stars will return for one night in January
--Changes in the way finances are working in TNA
--Update on the Turning Point show
--Who was just fired by TNA
--More on the concussion angle in TNA and why it was done
--Update on Kevin Nash in TNA
--Jeff Hardy's first weekend on the road as a heel and what happened
--Notes on Shane Carwin and Roy Nelson
--UFC fires a former contender
--Notes on what is expected at the Chael Sonnen steroid hearing
--How UFC is doing overseas on television
--Update on UFC in Toronto at Rogers Centre
--UFC fighter gets in punching exchange backstage at an indie show, main eventer can't perform
--Popular UFC fighter talks retirement
--Lots of new UFC fights
--Update on the Strikeforce vs. Bellator title vs. title grandstand challenge
--What does and doesn't make business sense
--What happened to Badr Hari
--Bellator finishes season
New subscribers ordering 24 or 40 issues can get free issues from the last 18 years. You can get 2 free back issues by ordering 40 or more
issues and one for 24. Let us know which stories you are most interested in and we'll send the issue with the best coverage of that story. We've
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our history are:
*November 17, 1997 (full details of everything leading to the most famous
wrestling match finish of modern times at the Survivor Series plus a
history of in-ring double-crosses)*December 21, 1998 (the complete Vince McMahon-Bret Hart conversation
right before the Survivor Series match so you'll know exactly what was
said--the conversation played in edited form both on the inaugural
broadcast of Confidential as well as in Wrestling with Shadows, but
everything that was said between the two about the match that was going
to take place that same night)
*August 1, 1994 (the most detailed coverage anywhere of the Vince McMahon
steroid trial, an issue praised in numerous newspaper article
and Sex, Lies and Headlocks)
*March 26, 2001 (death of WCW and history of pro wrestling on the Turner
*October 22, 2001 (why the adult audience has left pro wrestling in such
great numbers and what needed to have been done to save them)
*July 8, 1991 (Ric Flair leaves WCW as world champion/Zahorian
*February 8, 1993 (the life and times of Andre the Giant)
*May 13, 2002 (the life story of the most incredible pro wrestling career
ever, a look at Lou Thesz, in one of the largest issues of our
*January 27, 2003 (part one of the two-part series covering the career
and life of The Sheik)
*February 3, 2003 (Part two on The Sheik including thoughts from people
who worked with him and where he stands historically)
*March 24, 2003 (history of the WWWF title, inside behind the Sammartino,
Backlund and Backlund era)
*April 21, 2003 (history of WWF continues with the expansion nationally,
the death of the regional territories and the rise of Hulk
*May 12, 2003 (The life and death of Elizabeth, and the rise of fall of
*June 9, 2003 (Part 1 of history of WWF vs. WCW wars and what many say
was the greatest year in U.S. wrestling; plus a look at Fred Blassie)
*June 16, 2003 (Freddie Blassie through the eyes of his biggest rivals
*July 28, 2003 (Part 2 of the history of the WWF vs. WCW war and the
plans to make new superstars in the early 90s, what happened, and the
night where the three biggest wrestling companies in the world combined
for a joint show and what happened)
*August 25, 2003 (2003 Hall of Fame issue with huge profiles on the
controversial career of Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit as well as
historical features on Earl Caddock and Francisco Flores)
*September 22, 2003 (Part 3 of the history of the WWF vs WCW war with the
seeds that caused the collapse of the industry in the 90s,
Zahorian trial, Gulf War controversy, Flair leaves WCW while holding
world title and much more)
*October 27, 2003 (The fascinating life of Stu Hart plus the story of
Road Warrior Hawk)
*January 19, 2004 (2003 Awards issue)
*February 2, 2004 (History of Toronto wrestling, Jack Tunney life story,
Royal Rumble and Battle Royal history)
*February 23, 2004 (History of Guerrero family with Eddy's win over Brock
*March 1, 2004 (History of WWF continues with the period that brought the
company down in early 1992, the mistakes, the real stories and how the
*March 8, 2004 (History of Wrestlemania, its greatest matches and best
and worst shows as voted both by wrestlers and non-wrestlers and
Wrestlemania history books)
*July 5, 2004 (A look behind the scenes and Ric Flair's book and his
background with Eric Bischoff and Hulk Hogan)
*July 12, 2004 (A look at more on Ric Flair's book and his comments on
Bruno Sammartino, Bret Hart and Mick Foley)
*August 16, 2004 (History of the Olympians in pro wrestling)
*August 23, 2004 (2004 Hall of Fame issue and biggest issue of the year
with huge profiles on Kazushi Sakuraba, Undertaker, Bob Backlund,
Masahiro Chono, Ultimo Dragon, Kurt Angle and Tarzan Lopez--this counts
as one issue if you are asking for a free issue, but ordered separately,
due to size, is $6 in North America and $7 overseas)
*October 4, 2004 (the life and times of Big Bossman; as well as details
of the life and times of one of the most influential men world wide in
pro wrestling history, Jim Barnett)
*November 15, 2004 (the full story of what happened between Kurt Angle
and Daniel Puder, plus coverage of the most important week in the
history of TNA)
*January 24, 2005 (2004 Awards issue, Rock and WWE part company)
*March 14, 2005 (the 50 biggest money players in the history of WWF and a
look at their Hall of Fame)
*May 9, 2005 (the life and times of Chris Candido)
*June 20, 2005 (The full story behind Paul Heyman and the death of ECW,
as well as coverage of One Night Stand, Hardcore Homecoming and
behind the scenes of both shows)
*July 18, 2005 (death of Shinya Hashimoto and his records with a look at
the fall of New Japan, the Matt Hardy angle, tons of WWE firings,
Cornette firing in detail as well as problems of a WWE developmental
territory in our biggest news issue of the year which is a double-sized
issue and would be $6 on its own and $7 overseas)
*August 24, 2005 (2005 Hall of Fame issue with career profiles of Paul
Heyman, HHH and Freebirds plus debut of MMA Hall of Fame)
*September 12, 2005 (History of Mid South Wrestling)
*October 10, 2005 (Life and Times of the Ultimate Warrior)
*November 21, 2005 (Life and Times of Eddy Guerrero and Crusher, double
issue $6 on its own and $7 overseas)
*December 5, 2005 (The Eddy Guerrero special issue, double issue $6 on
its own, $7 overseas)
*January 9, 2006 (The life and times of Superstar Billy Graham, plus New
Year's Eve 2005 coverage)
*January 16, 2006 (2005 Awards double issue, $6 or $7 overseas)
*April 3, 2006 (Story of Ann Calvello and the history of Roller
Derby--many called this the best issue of the Observer ever)
*April 10, 2006 (Behind the scenes at the 2006 Wrestlemania/Hall of Fame
*July 24, 2006 (The History of the Von Erichs and World Class
Championship Wrestling--the most unreal story ever in wrestling)
*September 4, 2006 (The Rise and Fall of Kurt Angle; 2006 Hall of Fame
inductions of Eddie Guerrero, Paul Bowser, Masakatsu Funaki, Aja Kong and
Hiroshi Hase including tons of wrestling history around the world from
the 20s through the 60s, the evolution of working to not working
in Japan, and a look at Guerrero in hindsight, double issue $6 or $7
*October 9, 2006 (A look back nine years later at the life and legacy of
Brian Pillman with tons of inside information about what made him
tick as his real objectives)
*November 15, 2006 (History of WCW part one, Eric Bischoff's book and how
the industry was changed forever)
*November 20, 2006 (History of WCW part two, Why Jim Ross left WCW, How
Bischoff changed the company, signing of Hulk Hogan, Beginning of Nitro,
Jesse Ventura, Brian Pillman, Chris Jericho and signing Wrestlemania
planned celebrity away)
*November 27, 2006 (History of WCW part three, When Bischoff challenged
McMahon to fight; Truth and fiction around Bret Hart signing with WCW and
why it didn't click)
*December 6, 2006 (details behind Pride's offers to sell promotion and
Part four of History of WCW part four, Hogan-Goldberg match and why
there was no rematch, WCW loses NBC network deal in 1999 and the real
reasons the company fell apart)
*January 22, 2007 (2006 Awards issue, double issue $7 on its own, $8
*February 14, 2007 (Life and Times of Bam Bam Bigelow)
*March 5, 2007 (WWE begins plans that will change the business)
*March 12, 2007 (Life and Times of Mike Awesome)
*March 19, 2007 (Life and Times of Ernie Ladd)
*April 4, 2007 (Life and Times of Badnews Allen Coage--which many are
calling one of the best issues in history)
*July 2, 2007 (Part one of the Benoit double murder-suicide)
*July 5, 2007 (Part two of the Benoit double murder-suicide)
*July 10, 2007 (Part three of the Benoit double murder-suicide)
*July 19, 2007 (Part four of the Benoit double murder-suicide)
*July 23, 2007 (Part five of Benoit double murder-suicide)
*July 25, 2007 (Part six of Benoit double murder-suicide)
*August 15, 2007 (The legend of the God of Japanese wrestling and his
influence on MMA, Karl Gotch)
*October 15 (2007 Hall of Fame double issue, $7 on its own, $8 overseas
including inductions of The Rock, Tom Packs and the original Strangler
*November 12, 2007 (Life and times of Fabulous Moolah and history of U.S.
women's wrestling) .
*December 31, 2007 (History of Ric Flair and the heyday of wrestling at
the Greensboro Coliseum)
*January 21, 2008 (2007 Awards issue, double issue $7 on its own, $8
*March 17, 2008 (Life and times of Johnny Weaver)
*March 24, 2008 (Life and times of Gary Hart)
*April 10, 2008 (Farewell to Ric Flair; My thoughts, Shawn Michaels talks
of Flair's meaning to him; Hall of Fame; Wrestlemania double issue, $7 on
its own, $8 overseas)
*August 11, 2008 (Ric Flair leaves WWE; Updated history of pro wrestlers
and MMA fighters who went to the Olympics)
*September 8, 2008 (2008 Hall of Fame double issue, $7 on its own, $8
overseas; part one of Killer Kowalski bio)*September 15, 2008 (Life
and Times of Evan Tanner)
*September 22, 2008 (The amazing career of Killer Kowalski, one of our
most in-depth bios)
You can also order any of these issues on their own for $4 in North
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We also have available personally autographed copies of Tributes II, our latest book, as well as a DVD that comes with it talking more about
the subjects in the book. The book covers the life stories of Lou Thesz, Wahoo McDaniel, Elizabeth, Fred Blassie, Road Warrior Hawk,
Andre the Giant, Curt Hennig, Johnny Valentine, Davey Boy Smith, Terry Gordy, Owen Hart, Stu Hart, Gorilla Monsoon, The Sheik and Tim Woods. To get all of those biographies as back issues of the Observer would be a $60 value today. This is a collection of some of the best Observer articles of the past several years in a hardcover, full-color format that is 239 pages. There is also a foreword by Bret Hart. The book price is $12.95 plus $3.50 for shipping costs in the U.S., $10 for shipping costs to Canada and $12 for shipping costs outside North America. You can order the book the same way you order the newsletter.
--There was an MMA show in Victoria, BC last night with Robert Drysdale fighting and Frank Mir was there in his corner. They did an interview with Mir at the show and they asked him about fighting Brock Lesnar next. He said something to the effect of, we'll see how Lesnar's career pans out now after he got his ass absolutely smashed by Cain. It got quite the big pop. For old-time fans, the description of Mir from his behavior is that he's the modern day version of Mil Mascaras. And no, I don't mean he was walking around on his tip toes and sucking in his stomach while wearing a mask. More he's a guy with all the answers no matter what the question. (thanks to Greg Hill)
--Bryan and I will be back late tonight with Wrestling Observer radio covering all the weekend activities plus running down tonight's Turning Point PPV. If you've got any questions on pro wrestling or MMA, you can send them for tonight's show to
--Edge finished filming the episode of "Sanctuary" and I believe will be starting on the Smackdown European tour, thus changing some of the card around, with the show tomorrow.
--Shawn Michaels was among the participants in a deer and waterfowl hunt in Maddock, SD last night. It was for the Outdoor Adventure Foundation, a nonprofit group that aims to provide hunting and fishing opportunities for youths under the age of 25 with life-threatening illnesses and disables veterans who have lost a limb while serving on active duty. Michaels came after being invited by Keith Mark of the TV show "MacMillan River Adventures" that he's been on. Story is at http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/182311
(thanks to Carl Dantes)
--Poll on Smackdown for this week
36.4% of those responding didn't see the show.
--What do you consider tonight's real main event?
Jeff Hardy vs. Matt Morgan 42.1%
Team 3-D vs. Machine Guns 34.2%
Jeff Jarrett vs. Samoa Joe 13.8%
EV 2 vs. Fortune 9.9%
--Who do you consider the best wrestler of these Hall of Famers?
Jumbo Tsuruta 36.0%
Genichiro Tenryu 23.2%
Kazushi Sakuraba 19.7%
Dos Caras Sr. 5.9%
Negro Casas 5.9%
Nobuhiko Takada 4.9%
Perro Aguayo 1.0%
History not being kind to the awesomeness that was pro wrestler Takada.
--Eric Bischoff on facebook was asked his thoughts of Nexus. His response: "Boring as hell." Well, maybe it was an Otunga promo he saw instead of a Barrett promo. Then he wrote, "Paint drying > Nexus."
--Matt Hardy was announced by Northeast Wrestling for a show on 1/15 in Poughkeepsie at the Mid-Hudson Civic Center. That's the first show he's been officially announced on.
--One of the best action events of the year takes place tomorrow at Tokyo Sumo Hall with the K-1 World Max Grand Prix. This show is not airing live unfortunately, but will air on 11/19 on HDNet:
*Fabiano Da Silva vs. Jan Kaszuka
*Shunsuke Oishi vs. Makoto Nishiyama
*Hinata vs. Andre Dida (who was actually just shot recently)
*Satoshi Ishii (2008 judo gold medalist vs. Katsuyori Shibata (former New Japan star) under MMA rules
Michael Zambidis vs. Yuichiro Nagashima
Albert Kraus vs. Giorgio Petrosyan (Petrosyan, the defending champion, is the heavy favorite to the point unless he's injured people can't even see him being challenged)
Drago vs. Mohamed Khamal
Michal Giogowski vs. Yoshihiro Sato
The semifinals and finals take place the same night
Hiroya vs. Yuta Kubo
Yuya Yamamoto vs. Seichi Ikemoto
--Time Warner has a 30 minute Survivor Series free preview airing clips of three former Survivor Series matches, Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin, Undertaker vs. Yokozuna and John Cena vs. Chris Jericho. they also have a 10 minute preview for Dragon Gate Untouchable with the Adam Cole vs. Arik Cannon vs. Chuck Taylor vs. Ricochet four-way. (thanks to Suju Abraham)
--AAA is doing a TV taping tonight at the Convention Center in Tlalnepantla with Cibernetico & Mesias & La Parka vs. Chessman & Hernandez & Zorro plus Joe Lider & Nicho & Dark Ozz vs. Halloween & Damian 666 & Dorian Roldan.
--Joe Doering, recently cut by WWE, started back earlier today with All Japan as a late replacement for Charlie Haas, who is headed to France with American Rampage Wrestling in a few days.
--The Score in Canada will be airing the three hour Old School Raw on 11/15 live.
--The next Tijuana shows at the Auditorio are 11/20 with Axel & Porky & Super Astro vs. Angel Blanco Jr. & Pirata Morgan & Super Kendo and 11/25 with Mistico & Porky vs. Averno & Mr. Niebla.
--Real Championship Wrestling from last night in Baltimore before 300 fans: Nui Tofiga b Matt Wylde, Bruce Maxwell b Skull, Shiima Xion b Pinkie Sanchez, Daizee Haze b Mia Yim, NI4NI b Hit Squad, Delirious over Jigsaw and Ryan McBride, Shiima Xion b Bruce Maxwell, Christian York b Ruckus, Osirian Portal b Mark & Jay Briscoe (great match going 20:00). Next show is 12/4 (thanks to Joe Burrows)
--Primal Conflict Wrestling from last night in Shenandoah Junction, WV: Jimmy Jannetty & Holy Rollers b Gillberg & Amazing Sanchez & Hijunk, Julio Dinero b C.A. Elliott, Kevin Thorne b Memphis Mofo, John Kermon & Joseph Brooks b Bobby Shields & Logan Hodge, Tayler Steele b Leslie Leatherman, Jimmy Cicero won DOA Memorial Rumble. Next show is tonight in Kingwood, WV.
--IPW from last night in Lynfield, New Zealand: Fire Mountain won three-way over Flagboy & Antagonist and Rocketman & Astro, Harley b Alfred Valentine, Britnenay b Megan-Kate Deluxeo, Reuben de Jong b Liger, Mischa Ivankoff b Kazuki, Jon E. King b Ninja Fury, Kiwi Express b Saint Chaos, Dal Knox b Alexander (thanks to Steve Ogilvie)
--Hoosier Pro Wrestling from last night in Columbus, IN before 275 fans: Troy Van Zant & Bobby Black b Dylan Bostic & Damien Cole, T.J. Kemp b Gary Cherry, Ricky Ruckus b Cousin Cooter, Ox Harley b Michael Myers, J.D. Maronni b Donny Idol, Shawn Cook b 2 Tuff Tony, Doug Gilbert & Flash Flanagan b High Rollers. Next show is 12/4 headlined by Kevin Thorn (thanks to Jerry Wilson)
--NAWA Wrestling from last night in Waxahachie, TX: Max Muscles over Clayton Brooks and Rudy Boy Gonzalez, Fair Kitty b Helga the Hun, Cowboy Adam & Tim Storm b Russian Crusher & Russian Destroyer, Doberman b Pablo Chuco-DQ. Killer Tim Brooks promotes this group. Next show is 12/4 (thanks to Rob Moore)
--In Your Face Wrestling on 12/11 in Saratoga Springs, NY at the Rec Center features Tito Santana and Bobby Fish.
--The movie "Canvasman" about the life of wrestler Rob Elowitch (Robbie Ellis) will be shown as part of a fund raiser on 12/12 at the Maine Holocaust Museum in Augusta, ME, and will be appearing in film festivals in Tucson, AZ and Lewiston ME.
--The next Shimmer shows are 3/26 and 3/27 in Berwyn, IL at the Eagles Club with DVD tapings.
--Madison Eagles, Shimmer's current champion, is headed to Japan for shows with NEO Ladies and S Ovation.
--Mid Missouri Wrestling Alliance from last night in St. Louis: Gary Jackson won Battle Royal, Brandon Espinosa b Wayne Mitchell, Ace Hawkins b Tony Raze, Espinosa won Battle Royal, Gary Jackson b Brandon Espinosa, The Mauler b Max Archer, Donovan Ruddick b Dave Vaughn, Lumberjacks b Gary Jackson & Wayne Mitchell (thanks to Patrick Brandmeyer)