Feedback to the Bash, Ultimate Chaos and other stuff

Thumbs up

Best--Rey/Jericho

Worst--HHH/Orton

Would have been good but turned it off at the run in. Ruined the entire drama and concept. About as appropriate as Cheech and Chong running in to save DeNiro at the end of Heat by attacking Pacino. No idea who won.

Mike Devlin

WWE The Bash feedback

Thumbs in the middle

Best match - Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio
Worst match - John Cena vs The Miz

This is what happens when you have a really good show and a really bad show. You have mediocre PPVs, and The Bash was the definition of a mediocre PPV. All I know is that Jericho vs Mysterio was pretty darn fantastic and unique with some great spots and an entertaining finish.

Oh yeah and having Edge and Jericho on all three brands potentially will be awesome. But man did Miz get buried and man is HHH/Orton old!

----------
Robby O'Daniel
Journalism and Electronic Media major

Hello!

Thumbs in the middle
Best match: clearly Mysterio vs. Jericho
Worst match: Cena vs. Miz

Strange show. Mysterio and Jericho were awesome as usual. ECW scramble was good. Ziggler/Khali was alright, obviously just a setup for Kane. Smackdown's greatness will be greatly diminished with a Kane/Khali feud, so hopefully this just means Kane will be Ziggler's bodyguard of sorts? I like where they went with the tag team titles. Match was pointless, they should've let Edge and Jericho wrestle with the young guys, but at least the result was good. I also like the story with Vince and Teddy Long. I loved the Women's title match, probably Melina's best in years, and Michelle was really good. Crowd was dead, but the girls really tried hard. Jeff and Punk, I thought, was pretty good, obviously a set up for a rematch which is bad to do on PPV, but I'm not surprised. I thought the booking for the finish was awesome and Punk's story has been great so far, and this helped that immensely. Cena/Miz pretty much speaks for itself. Maybe they just want to embarrass Miz? I don't know but that was stupid and I don't understand it. Orton/HHH was pretty good. Does the writing team/Vince actually think people want to keep seeing this? What is HHH even fighting for anymore? This feud will probably get my vote for worst feud of the year, not because of Orton or HHH, because I like them both individually and the matches (beside WresteMania) have been good, but this feud is pointless and stupid especially since we've seen it 30 times already. So overall, the show was alright. Everything on the Smackdown end was great (matches and booking), and everything else was just okay. Good night!

George Fistonich
Los Angeles

Bash!

Thumbs Up

Best match: Rey Misterio v Chris Jericho

Worst MAtch: Dolph Ziggler v Great Khali

Lots of retention here of titles. I guess setting up the Night of Championship Switches from Philly. So Tommy Dreamer gets to lose in HIS "home town" as well next month.

Boy did they make the Miz look stupid. Why not drop the Ladies match to Smackdown and at least give him five minutes of offense? Silly.

The other news? Feuds continue! John Morrison? MIA! MVP? MIA!

Jeff Cohen
Flushing, NY

Dave,

I just wanted to take this time to discuss the Bash or formerly known as the Great American Bash. It's a damn shame Vince just can't get over the fact that this was an event created by NWA/WCW which had legs of success most of the time and then to start renaming PPVs between now and the year's end out of thin air just shows me how disorganized and chaotic the WWE really is right now. Just an absolute train wreck!

Anyways, this year's Bash was a very disappointing one to say the least and it just doesn't surprise me the number of bad PPVs the WWE has had so far and this includes WM 25. The opener match of ECW was changed at the last minute and despite the fact that fans like swerves here and there, but yet they decide to do this a the very last minute certainly devalues what ECW really means, which is nothing more than your basic "C" show with a bimbo acting as their GM. That show, despite the good wrestling it has on has nowhere to go right now as Vince is just flushing this product down the toilet. So why even air this slop on SciFi then? The show has its loyal following but the Tiffany thing and lack of promotion makes it worthless.

Now the WWE is getting complacent by making almost every match here a three way match? I mean when is enough enough with that concept and yet Vince had to throw a zinger in there about Vickie Guerrero?

So am I to understand that Teddy Long might out as Smackdown GM, judging by the way Vince has been egging him on to get the job done or else? Hell, he's the best thing going on Smackdown right now next to Jim Ross and what is Vince going to do afterwards? Replace all the GMs with Divas?! Yeah, that will give me a solidified reason to watch this garbage from this point forward...NOT! These Divas are untalented and useless bimbos who have absolutely no desire to want to learn this craft but to use this spotlight as a way to get themselves whatever publicity they can muster and I say it's time to clean out the ENTIRE Divas roster!

I'll have to admit the IC title match was a good one and nice to see Mysterio win that match and retain his mask but Jericho is putting a great deal of effort into this program and making it work, while Rey is still trying to iron out details on his contract extension but this feud has been well put together, versus a lot of the other garbage that has been going on over there. Kane is back which is a nice thing but Khali seriously needs to go once and for all. Never saw a seven footer + totally stink up the place with his pathetic wrestling skills.

So Edge and Jericho are tag champs now? Well, it's a small fix to try to bring back value and credibility to those titles but isn't it about time they make new titles to signify that? There's just way too many titles and this brand extension needs to be put to rest as well. It adds nothing and albeit it has made a few stars here and there, bottom line is you have two world champions but the WWE feels the WWE Title is more credible than the other title, so why have the damn thing in the first place? Better yet, create a PPV called WWE Unification and unify all these titles to make sure there's just one title of each division and move on from there and get rid of titles like the Divas Title for starters. So will Edge and Jericho star in all the shows?

Squashing the Miz; a typical WWE way to get Cena yet once over. Again, why have this match last only 5 minutes if that was the whole intention to start with?

As for the main event, HHH had to make sure he got the parting shot in to claim he got the last word against Orton. Like the fact Orton kept the title but a stretcher match? PLEASE! At least HHH can keep chasing the title and the WWE can now stop changing the titles around like they're passing over mashed potatoes during Thanksgiving Day dinner. Those 10 chair shots...a page from the 1999 Royal Rumble match between Rock and Foley. But overall, isn't this sledge hammer thing overrun its course too? Come up with some new ideas!

Anyways, that's my take on it and thank goodness I didn't spend the money to watch this nonsense as it will come out on DVD for 20 bucks at Wal-Mart in August and I think people won't bother buying it. The Bash failed this year and out of the 7 bashes reviewed, 5 of them have stunk up the joint and it won't get any better than that in the future. Like I stated the first around...the Great American Bash/The Bash is officially TRASH!

Richard Wierzbowski

WWE The Bash: Thumbs Down

Best Match: Mysterio vs. Jericho

Worst Match: Ziggler vs. Khali

I was bored watching the Bash today. The opening match was fine for starters and I like that Dreamer keeps the belt a little longer, but can we get someone else in the mix already? Instead of Henry and even Finlay let's have Bourne and someone else perhaps. Jericho vs. Mysterio was great and the only thing on the show I really enjoyed. Ziggler vs. Khali was pointless and even if they had the match just to bring Kane back why couldn't they have done it Friday on Smackdown when they will end up showing it again anyway. And who in their right mind wants to see Khali vs. Kane anyhow? The tag title seemed uninteresting as well. Don't know what it is, but Carlito and Primo usually seem to have good matches, but not against Legacy. Jericho and Edge being added kind of helped, but after Jericho just lost I don't know that he should have been brought right back. I do like Edge and Jericho together though and hopefully they work a good program before they split it up down the line. Punk vs. Hardy was fine and I like the way they are portraying Punk. Woman's match was also fine. Miz vs. Cena was what I figured, a rushed match where Miz gains no ground in his position. Tired of Triple H vs. Orton as the main event and as a match period. They just keep doing the same thing over and over and over. I almost wanted Triple H to win just so he could move on to a new opponent instead of having them meet yet again next month and do it all over again.

Robb Block

Best match: Jericho vs. Rey

Worst match: Triple H vs. Orton, the longest feud in the history of the world that nobody cares about

Man, it's not even funny how big of a difference in quality there is between SD and Raw. Most every SD match had something going for it, whereas I don't think I could say anything good about a single match from Raw. Watching Raw right now is like watching the AWA reruns on ESPN Classic. Such a predictable bore. I knew what they were going to do with Cena/Miz and Triple H/Orton, and it's pretty much the exact opposite of what they should've. Forget about Miz, because he's a joke now and the Triple H/Orton feud will never end. It ran out of steam after Wrestlemania, and it probably won't be over until WWE's Hell in a Cell PPV. Fingers crossed.

Can't say enough good things about the Jericho/Rey match though. Probably the second best WWE match I've seen all year, behind Taker/HBK from Wrestlemania. Superb finish. Really a great match that might be forgotten because it's on such a boring show.

I also really like where they're going with CM Punk. His heelishness is so subtle that it kinda sets him apart from everyone else.

So in closing, Smackdown>ECW>1988 AWA>>>Raw

Nick Swenson

(From Matt in Kansas City)

Best Match of the Night (Year): Rey vs. Jericho
Worst Match of the Night: Michelle McCool vs. Melina

Once again, Smackdown! proved why it is the premiere brand on WWE TV. Everything Smackdown! related, with the exception of the McCool match, was done very well. Rey vs. Jericho is the MOTY in the WWE so far, passing Undertaker vs. Michaels (which had more time and more botches). The psychology was sound, everything was crisp and the finish was really clever. Cena's match with Miz brought back memories of his match with Jesus at Armageddon 2004, when Jesus got maybe one offensive move in and Cena refused to sell during or after the match. Cena's "kicking dirt" taunt on Miz after making him tap like a geek bitch was icing on the "same old shit" cake. The ECW scramble match was a cluster, Christian was off his game tonight and showed it at three different botched spots. Orton/HHH was a match we've seen a million times with a predictable finish. This is the feud that NEVER ENDS.

Overall, good pay-per-view for the Smackdown! content, but ECW and RAW really brought nothing to the table. Worth the buy if only for Jericho vs. Rey.

Matt Galloway

Hey Bryan and Dave.

I just watched the Sapp/Lashley fight. Who the fuck hired their broadcast crew. Not only did they sound like they've never called an MMA event, they were so uneducated about the sport that it sounded like they've never watched it. I don't know the color guy was but his line of night was made just before the main event.

"I commend anyone that goes from making an ungodly amount of money in WWE and ECW and to step into MMA where your not making as much. So kudos to him... doing a REAL sport."

Does the lack of quality MMA announcers hurt the credibility of the sport or do you think that this is just something that casual fans will ignore?

Thanks.

Rohan Unrau.

Winnipeg, Manitoba

Verdict: Thumbs Up
Best Match: Rey Misterio VS Jericho
Worst Match: Michelle VS Melina

I should preface this by saying that I turned the PPV off after Miz jobbed to Cena, so I didn't catch the main event. Cena effectively buried him 8 feet under, what exactly was the point of this angle?! It does Miz zero favours, and does it really do Cena any favours that he went over the goofball? They should of had Miz go over by cheating somehow, or at least a DQ to keep it going.

Anyhow, the rest of the show was pretty great. The show was helped by a really enthusiastic crowd. Scramble match was fun and seemed to be on the short side. Jericho and Misterio had the best match for the 3rd PPV in a row. Of all their matches these past few months, I'd say this one was the greatest. The chemistry between the two was great. I think spot of the night for me was the double springboard moonsault that Rey pulled out. Dolph VS Khali was actually not bad for what it's worth. Having the small guy get the heat on the giant is always a tough spot, but I've gotta say, Dolph did a pretty good job. Kane run-in was bleh. The triple threat tag match was okay. The crowd didn't really seem to care for the match anytime it was Legacy VS Colons, but they popped huge for any time Edge and Jericho were in there. Divas match... did anyone care? Hardy VS Punk had great heat, almost as if they were feuding for months. I liked the false finish and the DQ finish, if only to push Punk further into the heel realm. His reactions during the match were great. And then there was Cena/Miz. For the first few minutes Cena no-sold all of Miz's offence. Then Cena hit all his trademark moves on Miz, all the while taking his time, burying the poor guy more. As if it weren't enough, after Cena got the pin, he kicks off "the dirt" beneath his boots. Great booking.

Anyhow, I'll read your ongoing results to see what happened to HHH and Orton, but seriously, I don't give a fuck about either of them.

-Jeff Lam
Toronto, ONT

Call this my soap box but...

Is it me or does it feel really bad when WWE continually scripts
scenarios where the Chairman or a GM-like power figure says "it's time
to shake things up."

That line has been used routinely dating back to 2004 and after a
half decade of not really shaking things up to any substantial degree,
these scripted scenarios simply serve as reminders of how unremarkable
the current product is and how Vince is once again frustrated by the
stagnation.

Problem with this lapse of judgment or foresight is you are now saying
it often enough that the light bulb is going to go off to fans that
the company is promoting a product they themselves aren't feeling is
up to snuff. And then, worst of all, they aren't backing up "shaking
things up" and instead fans are seeing incompetent characters with no
real depth making empty promises.

It'd be like Steve Jobs saying, Apple needs to shake things up.
Then... they don't release the next big thing like the iPhone or the
iPod. It's a truly bizarre and puzzling way of managing a brand.

Actually, it's a lot like Detroit. "Yes, we're producing cars no one
is going to buy. Now go and buy one." That strategy doesn't seem to
be very well received. Hopefully Stamford doesn't go the way of
Detroit! :-)
Name withheld based on status in industry

Thumbs in the Middle

On one hand, you can’t hold a promotion accountable for not being as polished as the UFC when they are working with a limited budget. On the other hand, when you compare this show to a Strikeforce event, the level of amateurishness displayed on Ultimate Chaos was hilarious at points. From the ring announcer and commentators repeatedly calling a 145 pound guy 175 pounds to the ring announcer beginning the fights with “WHOOOO IN BILOXI IS READY TO SEE A BBBBEATDOWN IN THE CAGE” to some dude in a t-shirt interviewing the owner of the local Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant, to the 42 year old promoter of Affliction cutting desperate shoot promos on Dana White, to their disorganization sending a guy to the ER because he had to cut weight twice, it was just a really disjointed show. Between the blurry cameras and the graphics on the screen explaining the unified rules of MMA, I felt like I was watching American Gladiators (the old version from the 90’s, not the slick new one) on ESPN Classics.

The officiating on the show ranged from passable to terrible. The most memorable part of the evening for me (and not in a good way) was the Gilbert Yvel vs. Pedro Rizzo fight. Gilbert Yvel had Pedro Rizzo on this back and threw three complete bombs at his head. Rizzo was 100% not defending himself or able to, and his head was bouncing up and down off the mat like a basketball. There was clearly a pause after the third punch where Yvel was expecting it to be stopped and where the official was in perfect position to do so, but he did nothing and allowed Rizzo to take two more wide open bombs to the head before stepping in to stop the fight. You could tell to Yvel’s credit that he didn’t want to have to keep throwing the punches either. That was clearly a situation to me where reckless officiating could have resulted in permanent damage to Rizzo or worse. The line of the night for me was when the post fight interviewer in the t-shirt said “Gilbert, you’ve just made a statement here tonight on Ultimate Chaos, WHERE ARE YOU GOING NOW”, and Yvel pauses for a second and says “back to the hotel”.

The Bobby Lashley vs. Bob Sapp fight was about what I expected. It was another Lashley fight where it was tough to tell exactly how good he is as at this point as a fighter. His ground and pound was ok but his skills in the guard didn’t look all that sharp. His build is just ridiculous at this point. It was funny to see Bob Sapp, who’s run in HUSTLE is notably sillier than any pro wrestling Bobby Lashley ever did, using the anti pro wrestling angle in his promo before the fight.

For a ten dollar web pay-per-view purchase, I can’t say I was expecting much more than a budget show and I wasn’t all that pleased or displeased with the purchase. I ordered mainly for the intrigue of the freak show main event, but the rest of the show was entertaining enough in the right and wrong ways to make it worth the low price tag.

J. A. Bowen

HI Dave -

You mentioned how much Lashley improved since he left the WWE and it is no surprise. The alleged WWE is probably one of the least entertaining wrestling promotions ever. Why do guys suck on promos? The words aren't theirs and when you don't own own you can't improve it. Reading the Observer I think what a nightmare the WWE must be day to day. We all know how ruthless and horrible the McMahon's can b e to other promotions. We also know that they have this paranoid delusion that everyone is after them. Meanwhile they promote look over substance and wonder why the people suck?

Lashley improved because he was out there on his own trying to find out who he was and how it worked. You can't do that in WWE. You need to take direction from people who don't even know the great angles in history. It's building a financial business with who are do it yourself investors taught at of money magazine. They preach buy and hold because that's what works in great bull markets (think of it as the format the show picked up 11 years ago still being run into the ground today) but ask them for real trading and financial strategies and they don't know shit.

Working for an underqualified relative of the egomaniacal boss is a horror. But add into that these fragile insecurities, the backbiting and the meaningless things these people obsess over (NBA vs. WWE anyone) and you have an ADD ridden presentation that others (TNA) think work.

Compelling, competitive storylines, battles that make you want to watch, performers that you relate to (not another long haired, pierced, tatooed clone) meaningful hype for your monthly shows and you copuld probably double business. But people would have to admit they have a flawed idea and that is not allowed to happen, the heads of theis company are never wrong (even when they clearly are).

Shaun

Hey Dave here I my quick thoughts on Ultimate Chaos,

Thumbs up for the fights
Thumbs down for the worst production I personally have ever seen.

Best Fight : John Harris vs. Brandon Harder
Worst Fight : Danny Abaddi vs. James Orso, just to dull

Lashley looked good, not really a good fight to showcase his talents but a big name victory none the less.
Ring announcer JD Lyons was the shits as was Col. Bob Sheridan, just the absolute shits.
I’ve never seen so many ads in the cage and plugs for crap know one would ever buy in my life.
The promoters should be ashamed of prodution the put out their. heads should roll if they ever plan on doing another show.

Steve Garrison
Sacramento, CA

Send us a news tip: newstips@wrestlingobserver.com

Note to webmasters/reporters: When recapping news from this site or from our newsletters, please include a link to www.wrestlingobserver.com

For the most in-depth and detailed news and analysis on pro-wrestling and MMA, always turn to Wrestlingobserver.com/Figure Four Weekly Online, the #1 website of its kind on the Internet. Members receive online access to both the Wrestling Observer and Figure Four Weekly newsletters and growing archives, Wrestling Observer Radio with Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer three times per week, the popular Bryan and Vinny Show twice per week, additional radio shows including Figure Four Daily with Alvarez, Mike Coughlin's Five Star Radio, the Dr. Keith Lipinski Show, The Adam and Mike Big Audio Nightmare, Tough Talk and the Karl Stern Wrestling History Show, the infamous BOARD, and more! Members also have full access to the thousands of hours of audio in our radio show archives which date back to 2005. For your convenience, we offer secure online payments using your VISA, Mastercard, American Express, Discover card or PayPal account. Don't miss out on the fun, sign up now! Don\'t miss out on the fun, sign up now!

Want full access? QUICK AND EASY $10.99 SIGNUP!

Feedback to the Bash, Ultimate Chaos and other stuff

What did you think of Friday night's Smackdown?

What was the best of these matches?

What was the best TV show of 2011?

WRESTLING OBSERVER
FIGURE FOUR ONLINE

DAVE MELTZER - BRYAN ALVAREZ

Feedback to the Bash, Ultimate Chaos and other stuff

What did you think of Friday night's Smackdown?

What was the best of these matches?

What was the best TV show of 2011?

WRESTLING OBSERVERFIGURE FOUR ONLINE

DAVE MELTZER - BRYAN ALVAREZ

WRESTLING OBSERVER
FIGURE FOUR ONLINE