UFC 156 feedback




Dave,

The reason I believe Edgar regularly loses these close fights is purely based on damage.  As active as he is, he generally doesn't appear to be leaving his mark on his opponent.  It also doesn't help that he often looks fairly beat up after 5 rounds.  Fair or not, in close rounds I'd image judges look at each combatant and base their scoring on appearance.

For booking going forward, I'd much rather see Pettis/Aldo than any other title fight at 145 or 155 in the near future. I'd match little nog against teixeira (unless they complain about not wanting to fight each other), rashad against shogun, reem against the Mir/Cormier loser , Silva against roy, and do the jds/Cain rematch early summer, maia vs Condit/Rory winner, benavidez I have no idea.  They need more talent at 25

Thanks for all the great material

Martin Foster

It’s nights like these that remind you why God invented pro-wrestling.  This night could’ve set up so many big money matchups for 2013, and instead they’re back two steps because of the results of their biggest fights.  The biggest of course was Alistair Overeem getting KO’d.  We should know by now if you want Bigfoot to lose, don’t give him any sort of motivation because when he’s motivated he can be superhuman.  So now we miss out on the Velasquez-Overeem dream match for the belt, and left with Cain vs. Bigfoot?  Oops, they already did that last year and Cain murdered him.  Back to the drawing board heavyweights.   Maybe Cain can coax Fedor out of retirement, and they can have Frank Shamrock and Chael Sonnen cut all their promos for them.

With Anderson Silva without any money opponents this side of Jon Jones, the intrigue of a speedy Rashad Evans challenge was on the horizon, but doh!  Little Nog wins, back to the drawing board for Silva, back to the mid ranks of LHW for Rashad, right next to Little Nog.  As lovable as the Nogueira brothers are, little Nog is not any kind of a draw and no one wants him to fight any of the top LHW’s let alone Jones.

And then we get the first interesting featherweight fight since Aldo beat Faber years ago.  And Jose wins a close decision, and not even a dominant exciting KO.  So where does that leave us?  Yet another rematch for challenger Edgar to avenge a “close decision”?  Yawn.  If Edgar had won, we’d not only have fresh matchups between Edgar and the rest of the division, but Aldo would have to climb back up and be dominant to earn a huge rematch.  Instead we’re left with Aldo vs. the Zombie and the division is basically done.  Frankie would probably be better off going back to lightweight to fight all the new guys like Gilbert Melendez and old guys like Pettis, Diaz, or Guida.  This was their chance to make the featherweight division exciting and it didn’t happen. 

Steve Te Tai ( This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it )

BELLATOR 87


Another thumbs slightly up.

Best fight: Quito-Lagman

Worst fight: the three fat bald heavyweights (counting Mirgliotta)

KO: Awad

Sub: Quito

On the undercard, Zelinski takes the SD 29-28 split 30-27 over Kirk, good fight. Good also to see all 3 judges correctly gave him the 3rd round that he spent entirely on his back but doing all the striking. Quito scores a desperation late 2ndR knee bar technical verbal tap (screaming) over Lagman, who was all over him and had opened up a severe cut on top of his head with an elbow. Another controversial call from Mirgliotta especially with Lagman being the local guy, but IMO correct this time. Askren teammate Reese humps Shepherd for 3 rounds. Just what we need, another boring wrestler with no strikes and no subs zzzzzzzzz. Khillah destroys a completely clueless looking John Schultz (who resembles the amateur champion Schultzes), finishing with a choke from mount in the 1st. Schultz further hampered by a braced knee that gives way on him. Mirgilotta claims another verbal sub on the part of Fish, giving Etherington the win after a pathetic couple minutes of overweight plop and schmop. Good thing Mirgilotta had a shirt on or you couldn't tell any of them apart. Fischer quickly taps Magakian after a couple of minutes of heads up grappling.

The main card is all LW tourney first round fights. Saranavskiy walks right through Michel, dominating all aspects before tapping him with RNC in the 2nd. Awad replaces the injured heavy tourney favorite Patricky Pitbull.and blitzes DiLorenzi for a rapid KD and TKO in an upset. Will Brooks coming in 8-0 off VERY impressively wrecking Kitaoka in Japan on NYE, is too athletic for the very good Tirloni, beats him to the punch, scores TDs more or less at will, dominates on the ground and stuffs all the sub attempts for the mild upset 30-27 UD. In what they built up as a beard vs. beard, screaming jackass Woodard ran out of gas after one round but Rickels couldn't finish him. Chumps. And they gypped us on the beard shaving, too. Look for a Brooks-Saranavskiy final.

UFC 156

Thumbs up. Fight quality sorta declined as the night went on, except the main, but high % of upsets added a lot of drama.

Best fight: Green-Volkmann

Worst fight: Noguito-Rashad

KO: Tyron

Sub: Green

Two really good fights on fb. In the opener, Edwin Figueroa outboxed Cisco Rivera early but gassed and Cisco came from behind to stop him in the 2nd with a barrage of undefended strikes. Tall Skinny Female Ref kicks off a bad night, even for her incompetent ass, being as usual way late on the stop. Chico Camus dominates Dustin Kimura (you couldn't make up that name) (EITHER of those names) but goes for too much on the ground and leaves himself open and Kimura taps him in the 3rd.

Isaac Vallie-Flagg, looking at least one division bigger, outworks and outcardios Yves Edwards for the mild upset SD to open the midcard. Correct decision which was booed, which became the standard for the night. 

Bobby Green has a breakout performance, scoring a major upset and having to beat both Jacob Volkmann and Tall Skinny Female Ref to do it. Volkmann dominates the first by blanketing as expected, but Green turns it around in the 2nd, takes top and is beating the shit out of Volkmann with elbows when TSFR stands them up. Green will not accept defeat tonight however and continues his dominance in the 3rd, battering Volkmann after taking him down again, forcing him to give his back and choking him out. And we are spared a 'big announcement' Volkmann was going to make if he won. Talk about a win/win scenario. Green however doesn't get a promo, what's up with that? They had plenty of time to kill on the show so that wasn't it. 

Speaking of breakout, Tyron Woodley just blows away Jay Hieron (who got robbed by a hometown decision vs. Askren in Bellator, just for a reminder of the MMA hierarchy), feinting a Superman left, dropping him with a Superman right in a punch combo you won't see outside of MMA, and finishing in short order with G&P. 36 seconds. Stunning. Maybe Tyron can breathe some life into the boring WW division.

Dunham, looking somewhat back in form, gets a much needed win over Tibau, who looks even bigger than usual and gasses quick. 29-28 SD for some reason, I didn't see a round Tibau won let alone two.

Benavidez opens the top card with a workmanlike 29-28 UD over McCall, which is booed but I didn't see any other possible way to score it.

Maia completely outwrestles Fitch taking him down and taking back at will, cannot finish him but controls every moment of the fight. You could have scored all 10-8s but of course they don't. Some boos for the action but I thought it was fascinating to watch. As long as Maia remembers to forget about striking he's a danger to everybody in the division including GSP.

Sooo, Reem passed all those drug tests. Where was the wrecking ball striking power especially against the notoriously china chinned Magilla? Do the math. Sigh. I think we're looking at a buddy fight between Cain and Cormier now. Adios dinero.

Noguito makes it Team Nog 2 Blackzilians 0. Shad for some reason insists on boxing the whole fight and Nog is simply a better boxer. What is Tyrone Spong doing with these guys? He would have done better in either fight himself. Can you imagine if Shad tried that shit with Anderson? Wouldn't last a minute. (Not even going into how winning a LHW fight qualifies you for a MW title shot.) Like I said last week, Vitor seems to have blossomed training there, pharma aside, and Eddie Alvarez also, but everybody else seems to be going backwards and in a hurry. They finally got some decent looking shirts at least.

The main goes as expected with Aldo dominating early and Edgar coming on late. You know, Frankie has nobody but himself and his corner to blame for losing these close fights. When you wait to come on until the 4th of a 5, what do you expect? He's got cardio to spare and he's gotta start winning an early round against these top fighters. Aldo makes things harder than they have to be also by dropping doing things that are working. He could have won every round with a jab and a LK. Thought the two 49-46s were overly lopsided but Aldo clearly won the fight. Brazil 4, World 1 on the night.

btw... why do they make the corners set up halfway across the ring from the doors between rounds rather than right in front of them? Wastes precious seconds especially with a hurt fighter.
Crimson Mask

Hey Guys,
I gave the card a thumbs in the middle. 2 bad fights on the main card brought this card down. One doesn't expect as much from a Fitch fight but the Evans vs Nog fight was a total let down.
 
Best Fight: Benavidez vs McCall
Worst Fight: tie Fitch vs Maia & Evans vs Nogueira
Best KO: Bigfoot
Best Sub:Bobby Green
 
Chico Camus vs. Dustin Kimura - Kimura was very active from the bottom always looking for the submission. Nice finish for him. Kimura looked smaller than a welterweight.
 
Yves Edwards vs. Isaac Vallie-Flagg - A decent fight to start the night. This wasn't the normal Yves Edwards that we are used to seeing. He couldn't keep the distance and strike from the outside as Vallie-Flagg kept the fight in his preferred short distance range. Some nice short elbows and uppercuts by Flagg.  Fight came down to the tossup of that first round but Flagg surprisingly out struck Edwards.
 
Bobby Green vs. Jacob Volkmann - A total Jekyll & Hyde fight. Volkmann's grappling in the first showed great control to keep position but there was really no damage down, even when he had Green's back with the body triangle. Kept going for a choke and was never close to finishing it. Green was an animal in the 2nd and his elbows in the guard were devastating. Not sure of ref standup in the 2nd as Green was very busy. Volkmann was exhausted in the 3rd and Green showed no sign of fatigue at all. Green had great ease securing the rear naked when Volkamann couldn't come close when the roles were reversed. A great debut for Green.
 
Jay Hieron vs. Tyson Woodley - What a debut for Woodley! What else can you say?
 
Evan Dunham vs. Gleison Tibau - Tibau looks huge. Started out slow but picked up as the fight progressed. Dunham was very patient picking Tibau apart from a distance once he knew he was tired in the 2nd. Dunham didn't seem as aggressive in this fight as he did vs TJ Grant but he deserved the decision here.
 
Joseph Benavidez vs. Ian McCall - Thought this was a very entertaining fight. The difference between this fight and some of the other flyweight fights people may not be as impressed by is that these guys were making a lot of contact instead of dancing around with very little contact. Benevidez' standup was solid and he was connecting often and Uncle Creepy seemed to enjoy being hit.
 
Jon Fitch vs. Demian Maia - OMG! Fitch goes from Best Fight to Worst Fight on successive cards. His submission defense was great as Maia continued to go for a rear naked but this fight was awful. The exact same scenario for 3 rounds that were carbon copies of each other. It was amazing to see how easily Maia out grappled Fitch but it was not exciting as once the body triangle was on, nothing else really happened.
 
Alistair Overeem vs. Antonio Bigfoot Silva - This was a big shocker. Overeem seemed very relaxed throughout the fight with his hands down and landing punches, knees and kicks. He was easily avoiding Silva's punches in the 1st 2 rounds and taking no damage. Great comeback by Silva for the big pop as Overeem's overconfidence may have been his undoing. An amazing combination of punches by Bigfoot to get the KO. He was psyched after the win with his yelling at Overeem when he was out.
 
Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs. Rashad Evans - Another snoozer. Not sure of either guys game plan or how Rashad thought he won this fight. 3 straight rounds of patty cake. They may have wanted to try a sudden victory round with paper, rocks, scissors. Not sure if Rashad didn't want to go to the ground with Little Nog and thought he had a better chance on his feet but he was doing nothing on his feet and was content to stay and stand and just measure his distance. Surprised his corner didn't tell him to try to take him down in the 3rd and score some badly needed points.
 
Jose Aldo Jr. vs. Frankie Edgar - Thought this was a very close fight and really could have gone either way. Aldo looked human in this fight and Edgar stayed with him the whole way although his face started to look like hell as the fight progressed and Aldo's leg kicks were doing a lot of damage. Edgar continues to show amazing heart and conditioning as he seems to always pick up as the fight gets deeper. Aldo the opposite. If Edgar was able to score a couple more takedowns and keep him down we could have seen a title change here. Would love to see Edgar get a couple wins at this weight and then get a rematch. Not sure who is next for Aldo at this point.
 
Check out my current vintage wrestling program ebay auctions. Sellers name is grantsindex
 
Email me about the Wrestling Observer Royal Rumble special at This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .
 
Have a great weekend.
 
Grant Zwarych
Official Index of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter

Hi Dave,

The statement “Frankie Edgar can’t draw” might seem an obvious one to you. However, tonight I read an argument that an immediate rematch should take place between Aldo and Edgar because Edgar has more drawing power than anyone else Aldo could face. I hope you will consider posting my rebuttal to that argument:

Since UFC 100, there have been 50 UFC pay per views with reported buy rates. By buy rate I mean the cumulative number of people who bought the pay per view both domestically and overseas. Obviously, 156 doesn't have a reported buy rate yet, and 155 doesn't have an official buy rate yet either.

Frankie Edgar has main evented 4 of those 50 pay per views, Edgar vs. Maynard II and III, and Edgar vs. Henderson I and II (initially I thought he main evented 6, but I forgot that both Penn fights were undercard fights).

Of those 4 pay per view main events, the most successful buy rate was Edgar vs. Henderson I at UFC 144 with 375,000 buys. This ranks at a tie for 30th out of 50, along with Rich Franklin vs. Vitor Belfort at UFC 103 and Tito Ortiz vs. Forrest Griffin II at UFC 106.

The second most successful buy rate was Edgar vs. Maynard II at UFC 125 with 270,000 buys. This ranks 43rd out of 50, ahead of Penn vs. Fitch at UFC 127 and behind Couture vs. Coleman at UFC 109.

The third most successful buy rate was Edgar vs. Maynard III at UFC 136 with 225,000 buys. This ranks 48th out of 50, just behind Faber vs. Barao at UFC 149.

The least successful buy rate was Edgar vs. Henderson II at UFC 150 with 190,000 buys. This ranks 49th out of 50, ahead of only Wanderlei Silva vs. Rich Franklin II at UFC 147.

Of Edgar's four pay per view main events, one can be argued as being marginally successful, one can be argued as being disappointing but not terrible, and two were downright flops. The scariest thing about the four pay per view main events is that the two total duds were the rematches. To me, this says that when people watch Frankie Edgar fight someone, they don't want to pay to watch him fight that person again.

There is a counter argument to this, which is that Edgar vs. Henderson is the second biggest pay per view draw of those 50 where the main eventers fought at Lightweight or below. Only Penn vs. Sanchez at UFC 107 beats that mark. But to argue down this path in my mind is to argue that no UFC fighter at Lightweight or below can be expected to draw well, and Edgar is simply the best draw of divisions that can't draw.

I don't believe that. I believe that fighters in smaller divisions can draw big money. Penn vs. Sanchez at UFC 107 drew 620,000 buys, which ranks 14th out of the 50 pay per views since UFC 100. Edgar has only drawn more than half of that buy rate once in four tries.

One more note. The biggest draws in boxing over the last 15 years, outside of Mike Tyson, have fought between 130 and 154 pounds. Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, Arturo Gatti, Miguel Cotto, Oscar de la Hoya, Ricky Hatton and Shane Mosley all fought in that weight range. If boxers in that weight range can draw buy rates of 500,000 or more routinely, then I believe MMA fighters in that weight range can as well. I just don't think Frankie Edgar can.

Thanks,

Andrew Richards

One thumb up, a good show with action but a lot of long technical matches that went to decision that aren't my cup of tea (Piggy back ride!). I definitely didn't feel robbed of my money, but it wasn't a UFC '62 non-stop action card either.
Best match: Overeem v Silva - I had my hands balled into fists and was air swinging during that last round. After the excitement and joy faded away I got sad that we're going to miss out on a Junior / Overeem match up, but such is the agony and ecstasy of the Trashweight division. Can we add Overeem to the Frank Mir, Cro-Cop 'should have been a contender' list yet?? 
Word Match: Evans v Silva - Honestly, I got bored and wandered off and did other things, I heard this fight was pretty bad though, right?
Shout out to the guys on the undercard, some real great fights. Especially the first two and Volkmann / Green.
Charles Harris

Best fight: Aldo vs Edgar 
Worst: None
Best Sub: Dustin Kimura
Best KO: None
 
I watched the prelims on Rogers Sportsnet and the PPV. I got my money's worth with the upsets tonight! Who thought Bigfoot could KO Overeem? Damn that was stunning! Then seeing Jon Fitch basically getting Fitch'd by a better sub fighter was amazing.
 
I always thought Rashad Evans was better than he thought he was, and tonight he proved that by losing convincingly to Lil Nog. I like Joe Rogan, but I thought he was a little too biased towards Edgar. I thought Aldo clearly won the fight at a minimum of 48-47.
 
A. Wong
Toronto, ON

Thumbs up
Best Fight Jose Aldo vs Frankie Edgar
Worst fight Lil Nog vs Rashad Evans
Best KO Bigfoot Silva
Best Sub Bobby Green
 
Weird card tonight with some unsuspecting stuff. In the main event I scored it for Aldo 48-47. I think he clearly won the 1st 3 rds and Frankie clearly won final two. So dissapointed in Overeem losing and the complete snoozefest that was Rashad vs LiL Nog, ufc can't be happy with either result. Damian Maia seems to the real deal at 170 as he just made Jon Fitch his bitch on the ground(and oh the irony of Fitch's corner complaining to Jon about how Maia aint here to fight but just to grind out a win). What was up with Jacob Volkmann? Just a terrible performance
 
Wade Haugen


Send us a news tip: newstips@wrestlingobserver.com

Note to webmasters/reporters: When recapping news from this site or from our newsletters, please include a link to www.wrestlingobserver.com

For the most in-depth and detailed news and analysis on pro-wrestling and MMA, always turn to Wrestlingobserver.com/Figure Four Weekly Online, the #1 website of its kind on the Internet. Members receive online access to both the Wrestling Observer and Figure Four Weekly newsletters and growing archives, Wrestling Observer Radio with Bryan Alvarez and Dave Meltzer three times per week, the popular Bryan and Vinny Show three times per week, additional radio shows including Figure Four Daily with Alvarez, Mike Coughlin's Five Star Radio, the Dr. Keith Lipinski Show, The Adam and Mike Big Audio Nightmare, Tough Talk and the Karl Stern Wrestling History Show, the infamous BOARD, and more! Members also have full access to the thousands of hours of audio in our radio show archives which date back to 2005. For your convenience, we offer secure online payments using your VISA, Mastercard, American Express, Discover card or PayPal account. Don't miss out on the fun, sign up now! Don't miss out on the fun, sign up now!

Want full access? QUICK AND EASY SIGN-UP, AS LOW AS $9.99 PER MONTH!