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Daily Update: Survivor Series odds, NJPW Tag League, Scurll wins gold


*Bill Goldberg vs. Brock Lesnar - The big story of the fall has been the return of Goldberg building to this match. Goldberg hasn't wrestled in more than 12 years, and from all indications, he's doing this match so his son can see him wrestle as a star once. At this point there are no plans for anything else, hence Goldberg pushing that it's his last match. Of course, being pro wrestling, given that Goldberg's segments have moved ratings and been well received, anything is possible. If Goldberg is coming back, he could win in a way that is set up by whoever Lesnar will next work with at Rumble or leading to Mania. But if it is Goldberg's last match, it makes sense, given all the money invested in Lesnar, for Lesnar to win. 

*Kevin Owens & Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns & Chris Jericho & Braun Strowman vs. A.J. Styles & Dean Ambrose & Randy Orton & Bray Wyatt & Shane McMahon in elimination match - To me, you have to split up the wins between Raw and Smackdown. A way to split them up is 3-1 in favor of one group underneath and then have the losing group win this match, since this will go on last and it's the bragging rights match so to speak. 

*New Day & Enzo Amore & Big Cass & Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson & Shining Stars & Sheamus & Cesaro vs. Heath Slater & Rhyno & Usos & Jason Jordan & Chad Gable & Tyler Breeze & Fandango & Mojo  Rawley & Zack Ryder in tag team elimination match.

*Charlotte & Sasha Banks & Alicia Fox & Bayley & Nia Jax vs. Becky Lynch & Nikki Bella & Naomi & Carmella & Alexa Bliss in elimination match

*The Miz vs. Sami Zayn for IC title

*Brian Kendrick vs. Kalisto for cruiserweight title, if Kalisto wins then cruiserweight move to Smackdown

        Essentially it doesn't matter that much who wins as much as the new angles shot, both for the brand, or perhaps some stuff between the brands that can pay off at the Rumble show. In theory, there should be significant angles tonight, and many figure Undertaker will figure into it given he was on Smackdown. But this is a show where the stories of the match will mean a lot more than the results. The cruiserweight title is actually the most important because it determines whether the cruiserweights will work TV both Monday on Raw and Tuesday for the 205 show, or they'll only work Tuesday. It doesn't make sense to me for the IC title to move to Raw. Miz is a good guy to hold the title and you don't need a U.S. and IC championship both on the same brand. But WWE is striving for unpredictability.

        They've also seemingly closed down whatever leaks there are regarding results. The odds just a few hours before the start of the show indicate no smart money having come in.  Here are the odds right now:

  • Lesnar is a -400 favorite
  • Team Raw for the men's singles is a -210 favorite
  • Team Raw women is a -185 favorite
  • Team Raw tag is a -270 favorite
  • Sami Zayn is a -320 favorite
  • Kalisto is a -590 favorite

        As noted, it makes no sense to have those results as Raw shouldn't win all three elimination matches and take the IC title and just lose the cruiser belt. That would make Smackdown come across far too weak.

        Action wise, this should be a very good show. There are lots of unique interactions that can take place in the different matches like Jordan & Gable vs. Cesaro or New Day, Styles vs. Rollins, Different interactions with the three Shield members all as babyfaces (and everyone figures there will be spots related to them). Zayn vs. Miz should be very good. Lesnar vs. Goldberg will largely depend on the crowd, but odds are the crowd will be with it. The big question has been whether the Toronto fans will cheer or boo Goldberg. Goldberg being heavily cheered in Buffalo was a sign, and Goldberg being so likeable this run may get him cheered. At first, the feeling was no way could Goldberg get cheered in Toronto, since that was the one city he got heavily booed in even during his heyday. But that's a different generation.     

Raw will be Monday night in Toronto. There will also be a Smackdown house show on Monday night in Kingston, Ontario.


  • Seiya Sanada & Evil vs. Bad Luck Fale & Bone Soldier
  • Togi Makabe & Tomoaki Honma vs. Yoshitatsu & Billy Gunn
  • Hirooki Goto & Tomohiro Ishii vs. Kenny Omega & Chase Owens
  • Katsuyori Shibata & Yuji Nagata vs. Kazuchika Okada & Yoshi-Hashi

Smackdown will be on Tuesday night from Ottawa.


  • Teruaki Kanemitsu vs. Hirai Kawato
  • Togi Makabe & Tomoaki Honma & Jushin Liger & Tiger Mask vs. Yoshitatsu & Billy Gunn & Ryusuke Taguchi & David Finlay
  • Katsuyori Shibata & Yuji Nagata & Kushida vs. Seiya Sanada & Evil & Bushi
  • Kazuchika Okada & Hirooki Goto & Tomohiro Ishii & Yoshi-Hashi vs. Kenny Omega & Bad Luck Fale & Chase Owens & Bone Soldier
  • Manabu Nakanishi & Henare vs. Brian Breaker & Leland Race
  • Ray Rowe & Hanson vs. Tama Tonga & Tanga Roa
  • Tetsuya Naito & Rush vs. Yujiro Takahashi & Hangman Page
  • Hiroshi Tanahashi & Juice Robinson vs. Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima

We're looking for reports on today's ROH show (Adam Cole vs. Jay Lethal for ROH title, Will Ospreay vs. Marty Scurll, Matt Jackson vs. Jay Briscoe, Mark Briscoe vs. Nick Jackson, Christopher Daniels & Frankie Kazarian vs. Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley vs. ?, Jay White vs. Donovan Dijak, Lio Rush vs. Dalton Castle) in London and today's ICW big show in Glasgow at

We're also looking for your thoughts on last night's NXT Takeover show and today's Survivor Series to

FIGURE FOUR WEEKLY: 11/16/2016: Buddy Rose and the California State Athletic Commission

Buddy Rose was always a troublemaker wherever he went, and northern California was no exception. Brought in as the new top heel while still headlining in the Portland territory, it wasn’t long before he started getting in trouble with the California State Athletic Commission. His first infraction was brought up at the commission’s August 13, 1978 meeting, stemming from a show a couple weeks here to continue.

WRESTLING OBSERVER NEWSLETTER: November 21, 2016 Wrestling Observer Newsletter: UFC 205 reviewed, Vader given 2 years to live, more

Conor McGregor and the records set on Saturday night is the lead story in the new issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter.  We have a full report live from UFC 205, including the unique situation McGregor is in regarding his power from his box office, from the realities of the UFC sale, and his demands of getting a stake in the company.  We look at the profit margin of McGregor's three fights as well as the total revenue he generates.  We look at what he means compared to a normal headliner.  We look at the situation with him holding two titles, a look at the contenders in three weight classes on hold until McGregor makes his next pick for a fight.  We look at the biggest live gates in combat sports history and where Saturday ranks, the retirement of Miesha Tate, and how UFC's biggest enemy ended up leading to its most successful live gate ever.  We also have early PPV buyrate trends and full match coverage.

We have a story on the life of Leon "Vader" White, the creation of Big Van Vader and how it got over, his WCW and UWFI runs, his brawl with Paul Orndorff, why he never won WWF title, and his recent serious health issues.

We look at Bill Goldberg and his first match in 12 years, and the business of WWE in Toronto this week.

Also in this issue, Paul Levesque talks Conor McGregor, new WWE signings, WWE WrestleMania weekend business comparisons, Sin Cara punishments, Hulk Hogan talks rumors of a return, Shawn Michaels at the Performance Center and the basic idea for who will do what, latest WWE injuries, a new WWE network show that was taped, Rhyno talks about his failed election, LeBron James/Undertaker story, XFL documentary, Paige update, and the McMahons/Foley/Bryan network special, Linda McMahon being considered for a major position in the Trump administration and even Dwayne Johnson talking about running for president in the future and his positives and negatives.

We have a WWE Network feature examining the different gimmicks the company is using to try to get new subscribers and maintain existing ones.  We look at why they are done, the timing, the battle plan, why it could work, where they may be sacrificing money and how UFC is doing something similar.

This is just a taste of what is in the new 35,000 word weekly Wrestling Observer Newsletter for subscribers... click here to continue.

ORDERING INFO: Order the print Wrestling Observer right now and get it delivered via mail, by sending your name, address, Visa or Master Card number and an expiration date to Dave Meltzer, or by using PayPal directing funds to

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If you are a new subscriber ordering 24 or more issues, you can choose one free classic issue, or two free classic issues with a 40-issue subscription.

WON BACK ISSUE:October 25, 1999: WWF No Mercy review, first Nitro with Vince Russo, more - The new era of WCW television began on 10/18 in Philadelphia, with Vince Russo and Ed Ferrara's first Nitro. There was no mistaking the fingerprints even if viewers didn't have that fact drummed into their heads from early in the show. Far more detailed work was done in scripting the show then at any Nitro in recent memory and possibly ever... click here to continue.


Bryan and I will be back tonight talking Survivor Series and the rest of the weekend news late tonight. 

Ed Francis, who was a major star in the 50s and world junior heavyweight champion and ran the Hawaii territory in the 60s and 70s golden age of that promotion passed away on Friday at the age of 91. We have a major story on him and the heyday of Hawaii in this coming week's Observer and talked about him on last night's show. Ed Francis and Lord Blears always retained a high degree of respect in the islands. Francis also had two sons who wrestled, Bill & Russ, and Russ was far more famous as a tight end with the New England Patriots and San Francisco 49ers. Hawaii was a real hotbed, one of the top wrestling cities in the country during the 60s, but it was difficult to promote a territory because it was a small population base, and because transportation of top stars was far more expensive than most cities where people could drive in and out of. 

Marty Scurll beat Will Ospreay to win the ROH TV title on the show in London today. The last word we heard is the TV title match at Final Battle will now be Scurll defending against Bobby Fish, Dragon Lee and Ospreay, although that can change.  

Yesterday was just the craziest day with four major events, with the two UFC shows, Bellator and NXT, not to mention the big boxing match last night. For general public interest, it was surprisingly low. The only thing that even hit 20,000 searches on Google was Andre Ward, at 200,000, which was No. 2 behind Hamilton at 500,000. The 200,000 number would not be a good sign for the boxing buy rate, as that's where bottom UFC shows fit in. I'd expect Survivor Series at 500,000 or more by the end of the day today and as one of the highest, but it's not listed yet.

They opened up new seating tonight for Survivor Series as the stage they are using is smaller than usual apparently. 

Bobby Fish missed today's ROH show in London. I believe there was a family emergency..   



  • The UFC show did 30,000 viewers on FOX in Holland yesterday. That's the Belfast show, not the Sao Paulo show. That was described as okay for a Saturday night with stiff competition. Marloes Coenen did a great job as an announcer. The reports we got on Alistair Overeem were the exact opposite. Sander Schrik did a good job as lead announcer.  Overeem did say he expects to fight again in February and that UFC will be running a show in Holland in 2017. Bob Schreiber, another announcer, said Stefan Struve was offered a very interesting match that could set up him with a fight with Stipe Miocic down the line. (thanks to Hank Mulder)    


  • WrestleCircus from last night in Austin, TX for a loaded indie show before about 385 fans: Aaron Solow & Ricky Stars b The Boys (the ones who usually work with Dalton Castle but had the weekend off since they weren't flown to England), Joey Ryan b Dick Justice, Jessy Sorensen & Wes Brisco b Jax Dane & Houston Carson when Carson turned on Dane, Christy Jaynes b Veda Scott, Scorpio Sky won three-way over Rocky Romero and Jervis Cottonbelly to retain Sideshow title, Mr. 450 Hammet won over Bolt Brady, ACH and Laredo Kid to earn a shot at Scorpio Sky, Jeff Cobb b Willie Mack (subbed for Tony Nese who pulled out after signing with WWE), Sammy Guevara b Prince Mutafa Ali, Ethan Carter III beat an unknown guy who was just there to get killed, Brian Cage b Chris Hero. Hero did a promo talking about how great the locker room was. Michael Elgin was there but didn't wrestle, but was wearing New Japan warmups gear and said people on Twitter have been asking when he will face Cobb for the first time and said it would be on 12/17 in Austin. Also announced for that show was EC III vs. Pentagon Jr. (thanks to John Tovar and Chris A)
  • Preston City Wrestling and CZW joint show from Friday night in Liverpool, drawing 250 fans about a mile away from the ROH show: Desmond Xavier b Zachary Wentz, Rampage Brown b Chris Dickinson, Jack Baron b Philip Michael, Shane Douglas & Honky Tonk Man b Dave Rayne & Joey Hayes, AR Fox b El Ligero in an excellent match, Dave Crist b T Bone, Joey Janela b Jimmy Jey, Bubblegum b Dean Allmark in what was also reported as an excellent match.   
  • PCW & CZW from last night in Manchester: Desmond Xavier & Zachary Wentz b Chris Dickinson & Dave Crist Rampage Brown b Dave Rayne (Rayne cut the same line Joey Styles did last week to ring announcer Joanne Rose and then blamed her for ending the career of Styles), Jenny B b Lauren, Honky Tonk Man & Danny Hope b Lionheat & Sha Samuels-DQ, Joey Hayes b Joey Janela, Philip Michael b Jack Baron, Bubblegum b AR Fox in what was said to be a great match, Ashton Smith b T-Bone falls count anywhere. (thanks to Geoff Nuttal)
  • Big Time Wrestling Thanksgiving Thunder on Friday night at Freedom Hall in Johnson City. There will be a 6 p.m. meet and greet and an 8 p.m. show. Appearing are Sting, Jim Cornette, Ron Simmons, Ted DiBiase, Gangrel, Ricky Morton ad Robert Gibson. Morton & Gibson will challenge the Heatseekers for the Smoky Mountain tag team title in the main event. Tickets are available at
  • St. Louis Anarchy ran its final show on Friday night in St. Louis, as they were bought out by the National Wrestling League that will run regular shows it the city: Devin & Mason Cutter b Alexandre Rudolph & Jake Parnell, Sean Orleans won four-way over Cody Lane, Ken Lee and Chris Brunk, Donovan Danhusen b Slade Sledge, Ricky Stars b Kiyoshi Shizuka, Kevin Lee Davidson b Mike Outlaw, Jimmy Rave b Everett Connors, Angelus Layne & Austin Blackburn b Evan Gelistico & Danny Adams, Aaron Solow won three-way over Paco Gonzalez and Jason Roberts, Zakk Sawyers & Mikey McFinnegan b Nick Iggy & Kerry Awful, Jordan Lacey b Matt Kenway, Davey Vega won three-way over Gary Jay and Mat Fitchett to win the SLA title. (thanks to Patrick Brandmeyer)
  • NWA President Bruce Tharpe gave a plaque to Jose Lothario to induct him into the NWA Hall of Fame for the 2017 class.
  • Jimmy Hart will be doing a meet and greet for Southern Illinois Championship Wrestling on 12/10 in East Carondelet, IL with Ron Powers vs. Vic the Bruiser as the main event plus the debut of Kongo Kong.
  • European Wrestling Association ran last night in Vienna before 450 to 500, which was a sellout show.  This is the promotion that is run by Chris Raaber and Michael Kovacs.  Robert Dreissker returned after being out since January from a shoulder injury in a  War Games match.  He looked good in the ring and is looking to return to wXw in 2017.  Results:  Muslim Sultanov b Franz Lerchbacher, Robert Dreissker b Pascal Spalter, Iestyn Rees b Michael Kovac to win the EWA TopCatch European title, Moxide b Slamerella in a  women's tournament qualifier, Jon Titan b Mike Skull, Chris Colen & Damon Brix & Peter White b Hellvetic Warrior & Drake Destroyer & Patrick Schulz,  Next show is 12/30 in Leoben with Alberto Del Rio.  They said he's bringing Paige with him and they are going to celebrate the new year together in Austria.  Raaber is scheduled against Joe Doering, which to me is good news because the last word we'd heard on Doering was that he was battling brain cancer and he hasn't wrestled in a long time.  Hopefully that means he's beaten it. (thanks to Markus Groneman)
  • Crossfire Wrestling on 12/3 in St. Catharines, ONT at the Merriton Community Centre at 5 p.m. with Cody Deaner vs. Kongo Kong,.
  • Ignite Wrestling from last night in Okeechobee, FL: Puerto Rican Hounddog b Chuckles, Matt Knotts & Jude jean b Marcos Espada & Jester Yorick, Lacy Lane b Trish Adora, Teddy Stigma won over C.J. O'Doyle and Nick Nero, Jon Cruz b Aaron Epic, Chico Adams & Ronnie Ladd b James Anthony & James Ryan & Jacob Ryan, Angel Rose b Johann Ramzes, Rex Bacchus & Slate Porter b Dirty Blondes, Kahagas b Timmy Lou Retton (thanks to Kim Artlip)